232 Responses to “hubba bubba”

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1. 211
   David Castor Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 4:15 pm

   Agreed, Rev. Love is something that transcends logics.

2. 212
   wazza Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 4:32 pm

   What do you mean by that? Like if I say “I love garlic prawns” how does that transcend logic? Or if we say “God loves you” does that transcend logic?

3. 213
   abtruth Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

   #

   part of my trouble with revs statements is that it seems he is saying that love is not logical and therfore illogical.. if this is so I would be concerned of a categorical mistake as love is a choice.. an act of the will as in would it be logical to prefer red over blue
   #
   209
   the rev Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

   I don’t know what you mean, I do believe that love is not a logical thing, that does not necessarily mean it is illogical.

   rev

   Rev i am glad you clarified that, i agree, though i thought by your previous post that you were making a sort of categorical error.. ta

   David - i don’t think love transcends logic as such.. i just think it is not in the same category to be compared..

   love is a choice, an act of the will.. and God loves us out of his devine will - why? i don’t know but logic has nothing to do with it

   btw David .. did you read what i posted the other day from Moreland.. i would be interested in you thoughts

4. 214
   David Castor Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 5:39 pm

   Yes, I finally did get around to reading the Moreland article - at 4 am mind you. It seems like he refutes a few strawperson arguments that most sophisticated post-moderns wouldn’t put up in the first place and he critiques a view that doesn’t have much creedence in the po-mo community. I didn’t find his defence of the objective truth of metaphysical concepts particularly compelling, but shall speak more about that later.

   Have you read Kierkegaard’s “Subjectivity is Truth” yet?

5. 215
   abtruth Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 5:55 pm

   give me a link and i will…

6. 216
   abtruth Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 5:57 pm

   give me a link and i will…

   wazza - hows ya war on terror going?

7. 217
   David Castor Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

   http://philosophyfaculty.ucsd.edu/faculty/rarneson/Courses/kierkegaardphil1reading.pdf - its about 12 pages long.

8. 218
   saint Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

   And a little intro (there are others) to the whole faith vs reason issue from a philosophical perspective.

9. 219
   saint Says:
   August 8th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

   The site to which David pointed has some additional notes on Kierkegaard and a response from Adams
   http://philosophyfaculty.ucsd.edu/faculty/rarneson/Courses/phil1spring2007.html

10. 220
    wazza Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 9:45 am

    David, that paper gives a number of rather beautiful and reassuring images. The external dosent matter, what matters only is the subjective. We must necessarily focus on ourselves and our own subjectivity. Something can be true or false depending on who says it - the utterance is not true in itself. We should not be concerned with worshiping the “true God”, just in whether our relationship to something can be called a “God-relationship”

    Indeed when the subjective becomes truth, the only sin is objectivity. But reassuringly, even though one may sin by trying to be objective there is always a way back to the state of grace by realising ones own subjectivity.

    Very deep and beautiful and it accords with a lot of other Eastern and Western philosophies which are relativistic.

11. 221
    the rev Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 9:50 am

    Well Wazza, I surely don’t believe that.

    rev

12. 222
    wazza Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 10:16 am

    Yes, but if you have a look at the paper - it says all that and much more.

13. 223
    the rev Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 10:28 am

    Look mate, I am not going to justify what I didn’t say, nor what I do not agree with. Postmodernism is not well defined, and has much room in its belief structures. I do believe that there is much truth in the postmodern position, but the Truth is to be found only in the person of Jesus, not in anything else. Not in logic, not in subjectivism, not in relativity, or objectivism. I do believe that the postmodern ideas, when taken in a balanced view offer us opportunities to see the world in a more natural and relational way, to make us properly suspect of our ability to communicate completely, and to focus on those things that are truly important to God, love, justice, mercy, hope and faith.

    rev

14. 224
    abtruth Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 10:47 am

    there is no truth in logic at all, but truth can be found through logic and truth has to comply with logic

15. 225
    abtruth Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 10:59 am

    truth also has to be coherent and correspond with reality.

    btw. saying ‘look mate’ can come over as though you are trying to intimidate

    David - what strawman arguments did you find?

16. 226
    the rev Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 11:06 am

    Well I didn’t mean to intimidate. Looks like you and I aren’t going to see eye to eye on this one abtruth, and ofcourse I think you are wrong. And you think that I am wrong. If it makes you feel any better, I don’t think we are both right, though we probably are both wrong.

    rev

17. 227
    abtruth Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 11:18 am

    no worries rev

18. 228
    Janet Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    Or if we say “God loves you” does that transcend logic?

    Probably.

19. 229
    wazza Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    Thanks Janet

20. 230
    abtruth Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 4:41 pm

    Janet Rev et al ..

    the freewill choice of God to love someone is not in a category to be judjed illogical or logical.. so i think the word ‘transcend’ places connotations on the concept that it shouldn’t .. i think the concept that God loves us is ‘outside of logic’ could help ease confusion .. what do you think???

21. 231
    Janet Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 5:16 pm

    I can live with “outside of logic”

    There are some areas of life that are outside of logic… like falling in love, or the mystery of God in Christ…

    There are some areas of life that are dependent on various forms of logic… like statistics or scientific research or analysis or philosophy.

    Then there’s all the grey areas that cause endless disputes on Signposts.

22. 232
    Janet Says:
    August 9th, 2007 at 5:35 pm

    “God grant me the understanding of when I need to think logically,
    The capacity to follow my heart in childlike faith when required,
    And the wisdom to know the difference.”

    Or something like that.

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