All good things…
When we first started this site way back in February 2003, we never imagined the way that it would morph and develop to ultimately become what it is today. What started out as a means for us to share and workshop some of our writing has turned into a site focussed much more around a community of people. It has certainly been illuminating.
But four and a half years is a long time. In that time our RL profiles have changed, and to be honest, Phil and I have both lost a sense of energy for this blog (something that would not come as a surprise to regular commenters, who have become accustomed to the fact that we aren’t around as much as we once were). That energy includes monitoring comments, responding to inquiries and requests to change/delete references, and so on.
We have spent several months now discussing what we would do with or about this site. This is what we have come up with. We recognise that the people who comment here have become a community of sorts and we want to give every opportunity for that to continue in some form. We toyed with allowing someone else to take over this site entirely. However, we want to maintain our existing archive as it is a bit of a scrapbook for us. And therefore relinquishing control over signposts isn’t something that we are comfortable with.
So for now we propose to just close the site. The content will remain but we will close the comments on all posts. Closing comments will be a bit of a lengthy process and will commence in the next couple of weeks, starting from the oldest posts. It is possible that in future we will start something new at this site. We might even get six months down the track, decide that we can’t bear to be without this blog and bring it back up - we don’t think so though.
We encourage commenters and others who might wish to maintain the “signposts community” to make some plans in the comments of this thread. It might be starting a group blog or a forum which reflects the same sort of open conversation which takes place here. We are happy to assist in whatever way we can, including directing future visitors to whereever you want.
We will publish a “last post” when we come to finally close off all of the comments, but for now we just wanted to thank our readers and commenters for the last 4 and a half years. To those that have helped with guest posting, and to those that have engaged in conversation and have in some way had their thinking or questioning as a result of this site, we thank you.
August 23rd, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Facelift, I see what you have been up against over the last few months. We are arguing with a lawyer and a preacher. People who use words to persuade not to explain, elucidate or make clear.
These people choose the position that they want to advance, and then look for arguments to support it. They dont go from premises to conclusions, they start from the conclusion and look for the arguments to persuade. Then they use rhetoric and obfuscation to block the debate.
Its ironic that they think that music has more power to manipulate.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:06 pm
One would assume, anyway, that a Chistian keyboard player who loves Jesus would be playing under the influence of the Holy Spirit, not someother spirit. There seems ot be alack of trust in Christ to be able to completely convert a person when they accept Him as Lord and Saviour. Is His blood not good enough to wash away the sins?
What if David, a sinner, not saved by grace, because he was pre-salvation through Christ, entered the auditorium and began to present the Psalms, or one of his psalmsts.Wold that be manipulation. What if God sent his musicians into or meetings, the ones who went in before the battles, would that be manipulation, or would it be usshering the Presentce in for victory?
Maybe if Robert Plant was on the music team we might have some doubts, but if it’s one of the saints, whose heartis in worship, it should bring enhancement to the moment, not manipulation.
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:03 pm
I perhaps was unclear, I love music, think it is very important, in many ways in the CHristian community. I think it has very important roles in both worship and social critique. I think it can be used manipulatively especially during offerings and altar calls.
I notice you didn’t address any of the misinformation that you attacked me over when I explained how wrong you were about the state youth games.
rev
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:47 pm
I have to agree with Wazza, most people in our modern society know when they are being manipulated via music
eg: advertising
movie scores
Now can I say the same about words, nope afraid not. Many people are manipulated by words which is probably why the bible warns us to be on our guards against false doctrine & false teachers/ prophets etc not minor cords.
August 23rd, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Wazza, with posts like that, I can’t figure out why I don’t feel like engaging any more!!!
August 23rd, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Music is good. Also as you do not use a two-four drum beat, and all songs come from the offiicial Luthern Hymnal.
A leather bound copy of course!
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:07 pm
lance is playing too loud. Phil and Dan will never be moved to shut this down to the tune of “Born to be Wild”. …I knew he wouldn’t get it right.
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:15 pm
When I think about this, I think Phil and Dan may be manipulating us into giving our final posts, shed some tears and say our goodbyes, only to have the goodbye go on forever. This way were all emotional wrecks, cause Signposts 2 is like a new church… it just ain’t the same.
sorry lance..
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Lionfish… leather you say, HMMMM.
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:28 pm
We are sort of like the last ones to leave a wake - because there is still beer to be drunk.
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Roll out the barrel - we’ll have a barrel of fun - roll out the barrel –…
Oh, sorry about your loss ma’am, I never had the pleasure of knowing your late hsuband, but if he were alive, I’d tell him this was darn good beer.
August 25th, 2007 at 11:37 am
Oh! How sad
but I understand. This site has been an incredible part of my journey, but I think that part of it is nearly over. But can we stay in touch somehow?? I feel like I know most of you guys!!!!
August 25th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Signposts2, Emma! (In the first page of this thread - Lance has set it up)
August 25th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Oh great. That’s what you get for tuning in to a thread so late
August 25th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Well… I’ve been meeting to write some tributes to commemorate the closing of Signposts, but just haven’t had time to scratch myself for a couple of weeks… I’m glad I’ve been able to find a bit of space for this before SP1 shuts up shop for good.
Dan and Phil… thank you for creating this space… I appreciate your intelligence, open-mindedness, tolerance, and your willingness to create space for the bruised, the broken, the boorish and anyone in between… Signposts has been a gift. It has stretched my mind and given me appreciation of the journeys of others. I became rather hooked in fact, because last year I went through some post-traumatic stress, and blogging here was one way to escape my own world and enter the world of others… in a more interactive way than reading a book allows. So thank you.
Lance… one of the things I really value about your contribution is helping me to understand how gays are treated in churches… I am convinced that before I’m let loose in any pastoral situation I need to get my head straight (pardon the pun) on theological, pastoral, social (etc.) issues around homosexuality, and just as importantly, to make sure my heart is filled with the compassion of Christ. I’ve also appreciated your razor sharp insights into the dysfunctions of church culture as well as some revelations of people of real goodness and grace. And thanks for making me laugh. Thank you for creating SP2… I think I’ll be blogging less there than here, partly because the pace of my life seems to be stepping up a notch, and partly because I feel like I’m in a healthier space… but expect my outbursts around school holidays!
Rev… I think you’ve stretched my thinking more than anyone else here, and I’ve really appreciated that. I also appreciate your integrity and your desire to follow Jesus 100%. I feel my current calling somewhat transcends the emerging/ institutional church divide… in the last couple of weeks I’ve been looking for mentors for women in emergent, parachurch, aspiring cross cultural mission and local church ministry settings…. and I’m currently organizing women’s gatherings to cater for emergent leaders and women in local traditional churches… I have a heart to equip women in leadership in whatever distinct way God has called them. If God called me into the emergent world I’d burn my bridge across the Rubicon tomorrow… but I think I’ll be trailing back and forth for a while. You never know…I might be a hard core anarchist one day!
Bec… I probably think more like you than anyone else on this blog (which means you have excellent taste of course!) I appreciate your intelligence, good instincts, respect for human rights and your appreciation of the human / pastoral side of any issue… which brought some depth and balance into some of the madder debates here. I hope all goes well for you in the future.
Abtruth… you’re a smart cookie with a good heart and strong convictions,… but I’m glad we’ll never be shipwrecked on a life raft without food. Just not quite sure how strong those convictions are when push comes to shove…
Reve… you seem a warm, sensitive, thoughtful, open hearted person… how’s the ferrets and the fairy penguins going? (I still don’t know what that dream meant, but I remember it vividly!)
AVB… I appreciate the way you respond to people with Christ like grace, even when they behave badly. That’s remarkable… good on you…
Homer… if consistency is a virtue, then you are a saint.
Saint…you have an amazing mind… I’ve noticed sometimes you jump to conclusions about a person’s world view if they use a particular phrase, and you’ve been known to “jump on” people if they borrow a phrase from one of your pet hate movements. I think it’s worth double checking and asking probing questions before letting loose… with a little more patience and objectivity you could be a brilliant teacher.
David / Sanders / Donald Duck etc. etc…. Jung believed that the parts of us we suppress rise up to be reckoned with in mid-life… and unless we do the work of addressing our repressed sides we won’t age well… the second half of our life will become brittle and shallow, instead of rich and well rounded and fulfilling. I feel you need to deal with whatever has made you so angry with religion… not so you can become a religious person, but so any darkness can get out in the light and find wholeness. Deep down, I think there’s a spiritual side of you you need to make peace with. I could be wrong of course…. How can one tell from a blog? But while most people on this blog seem like they’re moving spiritually, you appear stuck. I do wish you well. As Moses said… “choose life”…
Wayne… you have gone through an incredibly difficult experience redemptively… I admire the fact you’ve set your life course to empowering others. I really appreciate the spiritual depth you have demonstrated on Signposts. All grace to you…
Lionfish… lionheart might be a better name… smart and relentless! Fight the good fight bro.
Emma… another wonderful thinker, wise beyond your years, with God’s heart for justice. Be a little kind to yourself… not only for you, but for your family too.
Akevin… if you vote for the Republicans I’ll never speak to you again. Bush’s motto seems to be to use a bomb where a scalpel would better do the job. (ie spend trillions on a war effort with massive civilian casualty rates, rather than some old fashioned spying to “neutralize” Bin Laden.) But thanks for the nice things you’ve said about me!
ADHD Librarian… I just love that name… it’s such a great image. (ie someone saying “Shhh” while prancing about hyperactively) I’ve enjoyed your comments.
Bluth… you’re funny.
Daisy… I’m sorry we haven’t met… I’ve really appreciated your comments and your sharing your story. If you’re feeling brave, look me up if you’re ever visiting Melbourne… email jwoodlock@churchesofchrist.org.au
Emblazoned… you have a really good heart. The former head of Churches of Christ in Vic/Tas used to famously say: “If we don’t achieve it this decade, we probably will the next”. Your pebble in the pond will form ripples that make a difference. Be a bit gentle with yourself.
Greg… as well as being very funny, you’ve had a lot of good insights and have shared much of your story here. I do wish you all the best for your missional café venture.
Emanresu… you are a person of integrity with a heart to follow truth. God will lead you into unexpected places… it’ll be a great journey.
Zulu… best wishes for your life and your ministries. Thanks for your kind comments.
Mn… I’ve really enjoyed my dialogues with you… you’re a good hearted person.
Gareth Pye… your mum used to teach me at school. For those interested in trivia.
Janet McKinney… you have warmth and wisdom and kindness dripping from your posts. Blessings on you.
Blestpickle… where have you gone? I really enjoyed your posts.
Geoff, Jane, Singer… thank you for sharing your stories and finding the Kingdom of God was much more expansive and wonderful than any religious machine.
Assorted posters who’ve claimed that Hillsong isn’t all that bad, really… thank you for keeping the dialogue rolling along! Signposts would have been quiet without you.
Everyone else…
This has been a therapeutic community for me, as well as a learning community. Thank you for all you’ve shared. I’ve been thoroughly blessed… so thank you all.
Love Janet
August 25th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
love you too Janet
August 25th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
awww…this is getting so sad.
Dan and Phil…do you realllllly have to?
Yes, that’s a whine!!
August 25th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
To abdullah, I will really miss you…..you are the bestest and most funniest intelligent poster
please abdullah don’t go
bye cruel world
August 25th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Thanks Janet - some facts though
“if you vote for the Republicans I’ll never speak to you again.”
I am leaving blogging when SP shuts down, so you’ll probably never talk to me again anyway. Reguardless of how I vote.
“use a bomb where a scalpel would better do the job. (ie spend trillions on a war effort with massive civilian casualty rates, rather than some old fashioned spying to “neutralize” Bin Laden”
Think about that for a minute. Civilian casualties are not casued by soldiers, their casued by car bombs. Last time I checked, Bush has ordered no soldiers to carbomb a bus or a mosque - seems to be a Bin Laden task.
Old fashiopnd spying was eliminated by Clinton, as he cut the budget for on the ground spying and relied to heavily on technology. A mistake Bush has corrected. Too little to late though - Bin Laden set his operation up under Clinton.
Speaking of using bombs, it was Clinton who bombed an asperin factory in Africa in response to a Bin Laden attack. He aslo sent ONE cruise missile into Afganistan looking for Osama.
Hence our Ameican dilema - which wrong one are you going to vote for/ I am no longer a republican nor can I be a democrat. In fact i have little hope that politics can produce much favorable results whichever direction you go. becasue, no matter which side your on, IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEy. WHO HAS IT, WHO CONTROLS IT AND WHO YOU GIVE IT TO to set yourself in power.
For example, dem’s usually say they are for the poor. But the Kennedy’s are some of the richest people in politics. There is no POOR American senator - reguardless of party.
The republicans captured the so called religious right, and gave them nothing. The dems have nuetralized the religious left, and made them irrelevant. Both parties pander to their respective groups and give the religious community NOTHING. Hillary Clinton voted to send troops to Iraq, don’t forget. So it’s a big ole mess, and bush ain’t alone in the thing. Don’t let the media make you think it’s a one way street here, there is enough blood to go around.
Republican or Democrat, the choice is ours. The results will be the same.
The only thing that will stop Islamic Terror is when YOU wear a BIRQA - cover your face with a viel, I join the Jihad and we collectively bomb Isreal of fthe earth. When everyone disowns their Christian/jewish/bhudist/none at all faith and converts to Islam . Then there will be peace.
I would just hate to be a woman in that kind of peace.
Now you proabaly think I am a far right winger, and I actually am not. But that seems to be the picture we are looking at. It’s a NO WIN situation with politics. There is no right answer.
How do you negotiate with someone who will blow your children up, and themselves with them, in hopes of maybe killing someone else. You cannot neutralize people who live by an ideology like this. There is a 50 million dollar bounty on Bin Laden, but no one who knows where he is seems to be interested in peace enough to help us “Neutralize” him. Killing him will only martyr him, making the ideology stronger.
The problem lies with the terrorist actions and their devotion to Islamic fundamentalism. There are factions who have children not for the purpose of family - but to provide soldiers for the jihad. Soldiers who will strap a bomb to a vest and go sit next to your children on a bus…
And we think politics is the answer….
August 25th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Thanks Janet.
I must say though your assessment of abtruth does not quite resonate with me. Abtruth would be one person you would want on your journey in that sea of faith. He may not be one for dialogue about how hungry I was, nor too concerned about how well I tell my story - he’d just be doing everything to get food into my mouth. This I say, because while I have never met abtruth I’ve met someone who knows him well.
Blessings to you all. Special schmoozeroonies to you Greg. And Daisy, Emblazoned, I know all will be well with you both.
(Gosh this reminds me of a party I had at my place in my yoof where noone wanted to leave so I went to bed and everyone partied on until the cops came, and then they promised to be good, cleaned up my place, left- except for a few who decided they were too drunk to drive so crashed in the lounge and scared the life out of me next morning when they demanded breakfast. Do we get bacon and eggs or cereal Dan and Phil?)
August 25th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
That’s interesting akevin… but I was half joking… gently teasing because you’re further right than I! I agree with you that politics cannot save us.
Abtruth and I once had this ridiculous discussion about cannibalism… goodness knows what thread it was on… and ended up discussing who would die first on the life raft, and whether the survivor would live off the corpse. (Highly probable scenario I know.) You’re right… as a metaphor Abtruth can be trusted on the seas of life.
August 25th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
I know Janet - I am nowhere to the right as I was 4 years ago. I am in the middle of helping a woman in my church in her bid for mayor of our town. She is running as an independent in a HIGHLY republican town. You wouldn’t believe the storm trooper tactics of some of the local republicans. current city firefighters were on the balcony of a building next her headquarters, taking pictures of people going in. There was an older lady (looked around 99) taking car license numbers so they can know whose families to fire from city jobs.. probably sounds bizaar to you. Sad thing is, in some Democrat area’s it is the same way…
August 26th, 2007 at 12:12 am
[…] they’ve decided to call it quits (for a while at least, seems all the bloggers that say “never again” seem to regret it […]
August 26th, 2007 at 7:46 am
It’s a really sad thing that in the “advertising age” politics has become driven by lust for power, by money, and corporate political donors who want their vested interests upheld… instead of about ideals and service for others and justice for all citizens. Yes, it’s not as bad here… but it is getting worse… we have a habit of following bad US trends.
August 26th, 2007 at 8:45 am
The demise of politics due to commercialism and TV dovetails nicely with abtruth’s last post on “ACA”… great post abtruth.
August 27th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
[…] have both really enjoyed reading the comments in the thread announcing our impending shut down. Some of your comments have been very touching and have affirmed some of what we have been trying […]
August 27th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Thank God they’re putting this place out of it’s misery
Hillsong - 1
Signposts - 0
August 28th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
“Thank God they’re putting this place out of it’s misery”
All that’s happening is a change of ownership (once we’ve been given the thumbs-up from Helen Coonan) and a change of frequency and call-sign from http://www.signposts.org.au to http://signposts2.wordpress.com
Just like Channel 0 changing to Channel 10 ….or 3KZ to Gold 104 …or 2WS to 2WS-FM….
In fact, with Signposts2 there’s much more scope to do special in-depth reports (when warranted) on Hill$ong, CCC and other churches which deserve closer scrutiny of their beliefs and teachings…but haven’t undergone that scrutiny because the Christian media just rehashes those churches’ media releases..and the mainstream media doesn’t understand Christianity and therefore can’t report on it properly.
August 28th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Okay, time to say my goodbyes as well. Has been quite fun hosting the various different variations of this site over the years. Even better being the lurker just reading everything that has been going on.
Phil and Dan, well done for creating a wonderful community and opening up the eyes of the church for many people. Well done too for making the difficult decision to bring it to an end in an appropriate way.
Have no fear signposters, this site will remain here for posperity as long as I am able to.
August 28th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Carl = are you a “posperity” teacher. After all this site has had to say about the love of money and the teaching of Hagin, Copeland and you want to throw posperity back in our faces.
WARNING everyone - Carl is espousing the posperity doctrine!!!!